Second Sight + Metcalf Quotes 1 &2
SECOND SIGHT
WITNESSES
INTRODUCTION
The CES Letter provides a long list of quotes that seek to discredit the witnesses. Let's evaluate the quotes.
CES LETTER CLAIM
People believed they could see things as a vision in their mind. They called it “second sight.” We call it “imagination.” (FAITHFUL REPLY: NON-believers call it imagination. Apostate Ezra Booth in 1831 may have been the first to equate faith with imagination.) It made no difference to these people if they saw with their natural eyes or their spiritual eyes ( FAITHFUL REPLY: a phrase is only used by Jesse Townsend and John Gilbert) as both were one and the same.
As mentioned previously, people believed they could see spirits and their dwelling places in the local hills along with seeing buried treasure deep in the ground. This supernatural way of seeing the world is also referred in Doctrine & Covenants as “the eyes of our understanding.”
CES Letter, Page 93
CES LETTER | Quotes 1 & 2
I never saw the golden plates, only in a visionary or entranced state.
While praying I passed into a state of entrancement, and in that state I saw the angel and the plates.
CES Letter, Page 93
DEBUNKING REPLY
Correct. It was a visionary experience that they describe as feeling as real as anything right in front of their face.
These two statements are from the same quotation recorded in Anthony Metcalf, Ten Years Before the Mast ([Malad City, Idaho]: n.p. [1888]), 73-74. The CES Letter excerpts are in red:
Following is the history as related to me, including all his connections with Joseph Smith, the pretended prophet and the founder of the Mormon church: He told me all about the translating of the Book of Mormon, and said he had give $5,000 towards its publication. He said "I never saw the golden plates, only in a visionary or entranced state. I wrote a great deal of the Book of Mormon myself, as Joseph Smith translated or spelled the words out in English. Sometimes the plates would be on a table in the room in which Smith did the translating, covered over with cloth. I was told by Joseph Smith that God would strike him dead if he attempted to look at them, and I believed it. When the time came for the three witnesses to see the plates, Joseph Smith, myself, David Whitmer and Oliver Cowdery, went into the woods to pray. When they had all engaged in prayer, they failed at that time to see the plates or the angel who should have been on hand to exhibit them. They all believed it was because I was not good enough, or, in other words, not sufficiently sanctified. I withdrew. As soon as I had gone away, the three others saw the angel and the plates. In about three days I went into the woods to pray that I might see the plates. While praying I passed into a state of entrancement, and in that state I saw the angel and the plates."
All three witnesses agree that the plates were shown to them in a vision that was presented by an angel during the daytime.
David Whitmer related: "A bright light enveloped us where we were, that filled [the woods as] at noon day, and there in a vision or in the spirit, we saw and heard just as it is stated in my testimony in the Book of Mormon."[75]
Oliver Cowdery described it: "It was a clear, open beautiful day, far from any inhabitants, in a remote field, at the time we saw the record, of which it has been spoken, brought and laid before us, by an angel, arrayed in glorious light, ascend out of the midst of heaven."
Martin Harris died 10 July 1875 so he was not alive to rebut the claims.
The posthumous article contradicts a multitude of Harris’ public statements. Click here
In the year of his death, Harris said:
"The Prophet Joseph Smith, and Oliver Cowdery and David Whitmer and myself, went into a little grove to pray to obtain a promise that we should behold it with our eyes natural eyes, that we could testify of it to the world” (EMD 2:375).
The CES Letter is guilty of “quote-mining” where they search until they find a statement that is consistent with their views and then promote it as they ignore its context and other more reliable quotations that contradict their position.
68 separate references to the testimonies of the Three witnesses have been accumulated. There are no denials but there are six denials that they ever denied their testimonies. Click here.
This is an example of one of the more egregious misrepresentations in The CES Letter. It quotes a few statements from 9 of the 68 accounts and ignores the rest. Virtually all of them affirm that the Three Witnesses did see and angel and the plates. Click here.
CES LETTER | Quotes 3 & 9
He only saw the plates with a spiritual eye
CES Letter, Page 93
Next Relevant Quote
John H. Gilbert, the typesetter for most of the Book of Mormon, said that he had asked Harris, “Martin, did you see those plates with your naked eyes?” According to Gilbert, Harris “looked down for an instant, raised his eyes up, and said, ‘No, I saw them with a spiritual eye.”
– EMD 2:548
CES Letter, Page 94
Next Relevant Quote
or “with a spiritual eye.”
CES Letter quotes John H. Gilbert for the 5th of 5 times)
CES Letter, Page 100
DEBUNKING REPLY
This quote is from John H. Gilbert, "Memorandum, made by John H. Gilbert Esq, Sept[ember]. 8th, 1892[,] Palmyra, N.Y.," Palmyra King's Daughters Free Library, Palmyra, New York.
The CES Letter excerpts are in red:
Martin was in the office when I finished setting up the testimony of the three witnesses,--(Harris--Cowdery and Whitmer--) I said to him, "Martin, did you see those plates with your naked eyes?" Martin looked down for an instant, raised his eyes up, and said, "No, I saw them with a spir[i]tual eye."
John H. Gilbert learned the printer's trade in the late 1820s and established himself in business at Palmyra. After a short newspaper experience, he sold out to E. B. Grandin, and continued in his employment as a journeyman printer. He was interviewed many times regarding his role in the printing of the Book of Mormon and his disbelief in Joseph Smith is always evident.
On page 55 The CES Letter misquotes this: “He only saw the plates with a spiritual eye.” It is a small point, but demonstrates a lack of attention to accuracy. It is correctly quoted on page 56 of The CES Letter.
The reference listed on page 55 is: "Joseph Smith Begins His Work, Vol. 1, 1958," which fails to disclose the actual source, neither when Martin allegedly spoke it, nor when the statement was recorded.
This is a very late recollection recorded in 1892 claiming to be an accurate verbatim quotation.
This quotation contradicts other statements from Martin Harris. To a questioner in in 1870 Martin said:
“Young man, I had the privilege of being with the Prophet Joseph Smith, and with these eyes of mine," pointing to his eyes, "I saw the angel of the Lord and I saw the plates and the Urim and Thummim and the sword of Laban, and with these ears," pointing to his ears, "I heard the voice of the angel, and with these hands, "Holding out his hands, "I handled the plates containing the record of the Book of Mormon.”[25]
The reference to “spiritual eyes” is ambiguous. Since was seeing a heavenly vision in the daytime, it would have constituted a different viewing experience from that which he was accustomed to. For natural eyes to view such spiritual things could be described as a spiritual experience rather than a natural one.
Gilbert was antagonistic to the Church and was highly biased.
68 separate references to the testimonies of the Three witnesses have been accumulated. There are no denials but there are six denials that they ever denied their testimonies. Click here.
This is an example of one of the more egregious misrepresentations in The CES Letter.It quotes a few statements from 9 of the 68 accounts and ignores the rest. Virtually all of them affirm that the Three Witnesses did see and angel and the plates. Click here.
CES LETTER | Quote #4
I saw them with the eye of faith.
Why couldn’t Martin just simply answer “yes”?
CES Letter, Page 94
DEBUNKING REPLY
A highly questionable quote. This is a third-hand account of an anonymous person describing something Martin Harris supposedly said.
To know how much this testimony [of three witnesses] is worth I will state one fact. A gentleman in Palmyra, bred to the law, a professor of religion, and of undoubted veracity told me that on one occasion, he appealed to Harris and asked him directly,--"Did you see those plates?" Harris replied, he did. "Did you see the plates, and the engraving on them with your bodily eyes?" Harris replied, "Yes, I saw them with my eyes,--they were shown unto me by the power of God and not of man." "But did you see them with your natural,--your bodily eyes, just as you see this pencil-case in my hand? Now say no or yes to this." Harris replied,--"Why I did not see them as I do that pencil-case, yet I saw them with the eye of faith; I saw them just as distinctly as I see any thing around me,--though at the time they were covered over with a cloth”
This is the second of seven references to quoting John A. Clark's description of Martin Harris. John A. Clark is a former pastor who considered Joseph Smith a fraud.
Clark’s actual statement clearly says that he received his information from a “gentleman in Palmyra…a professor of religion,” who said that he had talked with Harris. This is not an interview between Clark and Harris. Larry E. Morris notes that the “claim that Harris told John A. Clark’ is not accurate. This is not secondhand testimony but third-hand-he said that he said that he said.’….As if that weren’t enough, Clark does not name his source-making it impossible to judge that person’s honesty or reliability. What we have is a third-hand, anonymous account of what Martin Harris supposedly said.” ("The Private Character Of The Man Who Bore That Testimony”: Oliver Cowdery And His Critics)
John A. Clark possessed obvious biases against Joseph Smith and the Book of Mormon. Elected pastor of Palmyra's Zion's Episcopal Church in 1824, he resigned in 1826 but was still living in the area in 1827 and 1828, when Martin Harris came to his home and they they reportedly conversed. By 1840 Clark had become one of the editors of the Episcopal Recorder and rector of St. Andrew's Church in Philadelphia. After visiting friends in Palmyra in August 1840, he began writing a series of letters to the Episcopal Recorder in Philadelphia "detailing some facts connected with the rise and origin of Mormonism.”
All three witnesses agree that the plates were shown to them in a vision that was presented by an angel during the daytime so it was a spiritual experiences their eyes perceived.
David Whitmer related: “A bright light enveloped us where we were, that filled [the woods as] at noon day, and there in a vision or in the spirit, we saw and heard just as it is stated in my testimony in the Book of Mormon.”[75]
Oliver Cowdery described it: “It was a clear, open beautiful day, far from any inhabitants, in a remote field, at the time we saw the record, of which it has been spoken, brought and laid before us, by an angel, arrayed in glorious light, ascend out of the midst of heaven.”
“Spiritual eyes” is an ambiguous term. The Apostle Paul described one of his visionary experience saying: “whether in the body, or out of the body, I cannot tell: God knoweth” (2 Cor.12:2-3). The CES Letter seems to demand a precise description of an interaction that is beyond the experience of almost all listeners.
Of the eleven “evidences” given here in The CES Letter, two (like this) are cited twice. Another three are simply references to John H. Gilbert’s writings. The CES Letter gives the appearance of eleven statements supporting its view, but in reality there are only seven.
This is an example of one of the more egregious misrepresentations in The CES Letter.It quotes a few statements from 8 of the 68 accounts and ignores the rest. Virtually all of them affirm that the Three Witnesses did see and angel and the plates. Click here.
68 separate references to the testimonies of the Three witnesses have been accumulated. There are no denials but there are six denials that they ever denied their testimonies. Click here.
CES LETTER | Quote #5
As shown in the vision
CES Letter, Page 93
DEBUNKING REPLY
The CES Letter excerpt is in red:
- Question: Do you know that the plates seen with the Angel on the table were real metal, did you touch them?
- Answer: We did not touch nor handle the plates
- Question: Was the table literal wood? Or was the whole a vision such as often occurs in dreams &c.
- Answer: The table had the appearance of literal wood as shown in the vision, in the glory of God.
All three witnesses agree that the plates were shown to them in a vision that was presented by an angel during the daytime.
Oliver Cowdery described it: “It was a clear, open beautiful day, far from any inhabitants, in a remote field, at the time we saw the record, of which it has been spoken, brought and laid before us, by an angel, arrayed in glorious light, ascend out of the midst of heaven.”
David Whitmer testified many times of what he experienced:
I saw this apparition [the angel] myself and gazed with awe on the celestial messenger and heard him say, "Blessed is the Lord and he that keeps his commandments." Then, as he held the plates and turned them over with his hands so that we could see them plainly, a voice that seemed to fill all space was heard, saying: 'What you see is true. Testify to the same." Oliver Cowdery and I, standing there, felt, as the white garments of the angel faded from view, that we had received a message from God, and we have so recorded it. Two or three days later the same angel appeared to Martin Harris while he was in company with [Joseph] Smith, and placed the same injunction upon him. He described the sight and his sensations to me, and they corresponded exactly with what I had seen and heard.[66]
Oliver Cowdery described it: “It was a clear, open beautiful day, far from any inhabitants, in a remote field, at the time we saw the record, of which it has been spoken, brought and laid before us, by an angel, arrayed in glorious light, ascend out of the midst of heaven.”
Whitmer makes the distinction clear—this is not “as often occurs in dreams,” things have the literal appearance. This does not mean, however, that it was not also a “vision,” however, since they were “in the glory of God.”
68 separate references to the testimonies of the Three witnesses have been accumulated. There are no denials but there are six denials that they ever denied their testimonies. Click here.
This is an example of one of the more egregious misrepresentations in The CES Letter. It quotes a few statements from 9 of the 68 accounts and ignores the rest. Virtually all of them affirm that the Three Witnesses did see and angel and the plates. Click here.
CES LETTER | Quote #6
'...when I came to hear Martin Harris state (Editorial Note: this first part appears to be hearsay interpretation) in public that he never saw the plates with his natural eyes only in vision or imagination (Historian Dan Vogel said, "the word 'imagination' is likely that of Burnett." See EMD 5:291), neither Oliver nor David & also that the eight witnesses never saw them (Editorial Note: completely inconsistent with hundreds of other statements) & hesitated to sign that instrument for that reason, but were persuaded to do it, the last pedestal gave way, in my view our foundations was sapped & the entire superstructure fell in heap of ruins, I therefore three week since in the Stone Chapel...renounced the Book of Mormon...
after we were done speaking M Harris arose & said he was sorry for any man who rejected the Book of Mormon for he knew it was true, he said he had hefted the plates repeatedly in a box with only a tablecloth or a handkerchief over them, but he never saw them only as he saw a city throught [sic] a mountain. And said that he never should have told that the testimony of the eight was false, if if it had not been picked out of air but should have let it passed as it was...'
— LETTER FROM STEPHEN BURNETT TO “BR. JOHNSON,” APRIL 15, 1838, IN JOSEPH SMITH LETTER BOOK, P. 2
CES Letter, Pages 93-94
Next Relevant Quote
If these witnesses literally really saw the plates like everyone else on the planet sees tangible objects...why strange statements like, “I never saw them only as I see a city through a mountain”? (The 2nd of 4 times quoting Stephen Burnett) What does that even mean? I have never seen a city through a mountain. Have you?
CES Letter, Page 94
Next Relevant Quote
For example, the Testimony of Three Witnesses (which includes Martin Harris) states:
...that we beheld and saw the plates, and the engravings thereon;
Martin Harris:
...he said he had hefted the plates repeatedly in a box with only a tablecloth or a handkerchief over them, but he never saw them...
I did not see them as I do that pencil-case, yet I saw them with the eye of faith; I saw them just as distinctly as I see anything around me, though at the time they were covered over with a cloth.
DEBUNKING REPLY
This is from Stephen Burnett to Lyman E. Johnson, 15 April 1838, Joseph Smith Letterbook (1837-43), 2:64-66, Joseph Smith Papers, LDS Church Archives, Salt Lake City, Utah. The CES Letter quotes this twice, once in its entirety (in red) and then a portion (underlined)
“I have reflected long and deliberately upon the history of this church & weighed the evidence for & against it, loth to give it up, but when I came to hear Martin Harris state in public that he never saw the plates with his natural eyes only in vision or imagination, neither Oliver nor David & also that the eight witnesses never saw them & hesitated to sign that instrument for that reason, but were persuaded to do it, the last pedestal gave way, in my view our foundations was (sic) sapped & the entire superstructure fell a heap of ruins,…I was followed by W. Parish[,] Luke Johnson & John Boynton[,] all of the[m] concurred with me. After we done speaking M Harris arose & said he was sorry for any man who rejected the Book of Mormon for he knew it was true, he said he had hefted the plates repeatedly in a box with only a tablecloth or handkerchief over them, but he never saw them only as he saw a city through a mountain. And said that he never should have told that the testimony of the eight was false, if it had not been picked out of him but should have let it passed as it was…”
Burnett, a long-time resident of Orange, Ohio, converted to Mormonism and was baptized by John Murdock in November 1830. In 1831 he was successively ordained to the office of priest, elder, and high priest. In 1832 he served a mission for the church (D&C 75:35). By late 1837 he had become disillusioned with church leaders, and by 1838 had publicly denounced Joseph Smith. According to Joseph Smith, Burnett "could not bear to have his purse taxed," so he "proclaimed all revelation lies" (Elders' Journal, 1838, 57). On 15 April 1838, Burnett wrote to Lyman E. Johnson (1811-56), a former member of the Quorum of Twelve Apostles living in Far West, Missouri. Johnson had become critical of church leadership over the Kirtland Bank scandal and began associating with a group of dissenters at Far West.
At this time this was written, Stephen Burnett was a bitter anti-Mormon so his comments were biased and must be interpreted with that in mind.
All three witnesses agree that the plates were shown to them in a vision that was presented by an angel during the daytime.
David Whitmer related: “A bright light enveloped us where we were, that filled [the woods as] at noon day, and there in a vision or in the spirit, we saw and heard just as it is stated in my testimony in the Book of Mormon.”[75]
Oliver Cowdery described it: “It was a clear, open beautiful day, far from any inhabitants, in a remote field, at the time we saw the record, of which it has been spoken, brought and laid before us, by an angel, arrayed in glorious light, ascend out of the midst of heaven.”
The statement "he never saw them only as he saw a city through a mountain" is admittedly puzzling, but it is not evidence of fabrication, especially when he is trying to describe a visionary experience. It sounds like he is sincerely trying to describe his experience, rather than making up a deception.
The statement about the Eight Witnesses is easily contradicted by multiple evidences. Click here
Hyrum Smith, one of the Eight Witnesses stated during a visit to Sunbury, Ohio, in 1838:
. . . he had but too [two] hands and too [two] eyes[.] he said he had seene the plates with his eyes and handeled them with his hands and he saw a brest plate and he told how it wass maid[.] it wass fixed for the brest of a man with a holer [hollow or concave] stomak and too [two] pieces upon eatch side with a hole throu them to put in a string to tye <<it>> on but that wass not so good gold as the plates for that was pure[.] why i write this is because thay dis=put[e] [the] Book so much (Sally Parker to John Kempton, 26 August 1838, microfilm, Family History Library, Salt Lake City, Utah; a portion cited in R. L. Anderson 1981, 159).
"Mr. [John] Whitmer is considered a truthful, honest and law abiding citizen by this community, and consequently, his appointment [to preach] drew out a large audience. Mr. Whitmer stated that he had often handled the identical golden plates which Mr. Smith received from the angel...."[95]
John Whitmer also related: "I have never heard that any one of the three, or eight witnesses ever denied the testimony that they have borne to the Book as published in the first edition of the Book of Mormon."[93]
68 separate references to the testimonies of the Three witnesses have been accumulated. There are no denials but there are six denials that they ever denied their testimonies. Click here.
This is an example of one of the more egregious misrepresentations in The CES Letter.It quotes a few statements from 9 of the 68 accounts and ignores the rest. Virtually all of them affirm that the Three Witnesses did see and angel and the plates. Click here.
CES LETTER | Quote #7
CES Letter, Page 93
DEBUNKING REPLY
This is from Pomeroy Tucker, Origin, Rise, and Progress of Mormonism (New York: D. Appleton and Co., 1867), 71. The CES Letter excerpt is in red:
How to reconcile the act of Harris in signing his name to such a statement, in view of the character of honesty which had always been conceded to him, could never be easily explained. In reply to uncharitable suggestions of his neighbors, he used to practice a good deal of his characteristic jargon about "seeing with the spiritual eye," and the like. As regards the other witnesses associated with Harris, their averments in this or any other matter could excite no more surprise than did those of Smith himself.
This is not an independent attestation, but simply an author (Pomeroy Tucker) who had never met Martin Harris apparently quoting John H. Gilbert. Hence, it is either hearsay evidence or a thirdhand account of a quote The CES Letter has already cited.
All three witnesses agree that the plates were shown to them in a vision that was presented by an angel during the daytime so it was a spiritual experiences their eyes perceived.
David Whitmer related: “A bright light enveloped us where we were, that filled [the woods as] at noon day, and there in a vision or in the spirit, we saw and heard just as it is stated in my testimony in the Book of Mormon.”[75]
Oliver Cowdery described it: “It was a clear, open beautiful day, far from any inhabitants, in a remote field, at the time we saw the record, of which it has been spoken, brought and laid before us, by an angel, arrayed in glorious light, ascend out of the midst of heaven.”
"Spiritual eyes" is an ambiguous term. The Apostle Paul described one of his visionary experience saying: "whether in the body, or out of the body, I cannot tell: God knoweth" (2 Cor.12:2-3). The CES Letter seems to demand a precise description of an interaction that is beyond the experience of almost all listeners.
Of the eleven "evidences" given here in The CES Letter, three are simply references to John H. Gilbert's writings. Another two are cited twice. The CES Letter gives the appearance of eleven statements supporting its view, but in reality there are only seven.
CES LETTER | Quote #8
Two other Palmyra residents said that Harris told them that he had seen the plates with “the eye of faith” or “spiritual eyes”
CES Letter, Page 94
DEBUNKING REPLY
The source of this quotation is a letter: Jesse Townsend to Phineas Stiles, 24 December 1833, Pomeroy Tucker, Origin, Rise, and Progress of Mormonism (New York: D. Appleton and Co., 1867), 288-91. The CES Letter excerpt is in red:
At that time Martin Harris was worth five or six thousand dollars, while the Smiths were not worth a cent. The latter used Martin's money freely; and some other men, having a great dislike to labor, joined Joe in his deceptions, among whom was a sort of schoolmaster named Cowdery, who assisted him in writing or transcribing the "Book of Mormon," as a pretended translation of the golden plates which he affirmed he had been directed by the Spirit of the Lord to dig from the earth. This was all done in the most secret manner. At the same time it was assumed to the uninitiated that it would be "immediate death" for any except the translators to see the plates. Poor Martin's faith was apparently strengthened by this pretension, but afterward the "command" was modified, and he claimed to have seen the plates with "spiritual eyes."
While Townsend was living in the area, this is not a direct quote but appears to be hearsay evidence.
Jesse Townsend (1766-1838), was highly biased. A graduate of Yale University, he was ordained in 1792 and installed as pastor of Palmyra's Western Presbyterian Church on 29 August 1817. After serving three years, he moved to Illinois and later to Missouri. Returning to Palmyra in 1826, he served as pastor in neighboring Sodus from 1827 to 1831. After several years of illness, Townsend died at Palmyra in 1838.
Alleging a “command” to not allow anyone to see the plates under the penalty of “immediate death” demonstrates Townsend’s lack of understanding. The Book of Mormon foretells: “the eyes of none shall behold it save it be that three witnesses shall behold it, by the power of God, besides him to whom the book shall be delivered” (2 Nephi 27:12; see also Ether 5:4; D&C 5:15, 17:1).
This quotation contradicts other statements from Martin Harris. To a questioner in in 1870 he said:
“Young man, I had the privilege of being with the Prophet Joseph Smith, and with these eyes of mine,” pointing to his eyes, “I saw the angel of the Lord and I saw the plates and the Urim and Thummim and the sword of Laban, and with these ears,” pointing to his ears, “I heard the voice of the angel, and with these hands, “Holding out his hands, “I handled the plates containing the record of the Book of Mormon.”[25]
The reference to a “spiritual eye” is ambiguous. Since was seeing a heavenly vision in the daytime, it would have constituted a different viewing experience from that which he was accustomed to. For natural eyes to view such spiritual things could be described as a spiritual experience rather than a natural one.
68 separate references to the testimonies of the Three witnesses have been accumulated. There are no denials but there are six denials that they ever denied their testimonies. Click here.
This is an example of one of the more egregious misrepresentations in The CES Letter. It quotes a few statements from 9 of the 68 accounts and ignores the rest. Virtually all of them affirm that the Three Witnesses did see and angel and the plates. Click here.
CES LETTER | Quote #9
John H. Gilbert, the typesetter for most of the Book of Mormon, said that he had asked Harris, “Martin, did you see those plates with your naked eyes?” According to Gilbert, Harris “looked down for an instant, raised his eyes up, and said, ‘No, I saw them with a spiritual eye.”
CES Letter, Page 94
DEBUNKING REPLY
update coming